Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Rise up at work. I'm Dr. Deepak Bhutra and today we are unlocking the work life you were meant to live. You're watching Now Media Television.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Rise up at Work.
[00:00:14] Speaker A: I'm Deepak Bhutra.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Today I've got someone very special. I'm talking with a leader who understands growth from both sides. He's done enterprise sales and now he's an entrepreneur. Please join me in welcoming Gerod Cox. He's the founder of Sales Pipeline, Girod. Welcome to the show. How are you doing, sir?
[00:00:29] Speaker C: Great, Deepak, how are you? Delighted to be here.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: My pleasure, Absolutely. So Girod and I have been talking on and off with each other and I really think that we're going to enjoy this conversation. I want to start with a problem statement, right?
This is excitement about growth. Giroud. Everyone talks about it, everyone wants it. Right? And then the problem starts when you see that to get growth you need to have some sort of an engine. You need to build that engine. So, so let's start very simply. What does Sales Pipeline do today? Girard? And who do you typically help and what pain are your clients experiencing when they first come to you, sir?
[00:01:01] Speaker C: So we are an outsourced sales partner, but we would call ourselves a revenue growth partner. And what we do is we help small and medium sized businesses sell and grow their revenue like enterprise companies. So our aim is to bring enterprise grade sales systems solutions and people, small and medium sized businesses. And some of the ways that we would describe it is we help seven figure businesses become eight figure businesses and prime them for the future.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Isn't that pretty cool to say that so calmly and coolly, right. That we prime, you know, eight figures, seven figures. And, and, and there's a lot of effort that goes into it. Right. And I respect that. Now you, I want to push the agenda here a bit. Right. So you have been doing this for how long now, sir?
[00:01:42] Speaker C: Just over three and a half years.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Three and a half years. And. And you've been in enterprise sales before that? Now here's the fun part. I'm an entrepreneur and I can tell you one thing. I used to come from a sales function and Garrett, what's really surprised me is as a founder, as someone running your own company, there is a mindset shift that needs to happen.
Right. So what I'm going to do for you is that I really want to understand there are many companies listening in right now, many founders, right. And they typically underestimate how difficult sales really is. Where do you think Founders or leaders usually get it wrong when they try to build a sales engine. What guidance would you give them?
[00:02:16] Speaker C: I think they've never been in the shoes of the salesperson, so they need to take a step back and think, okay, firstly, what is the final destination we're going to? And then we need to plot out all the different steps we need to hit to get there. And in the reality, what most founders do is they plot the steps from where they are to the revenue they can get quickly when they'll end up having to rebuild from the start. So for me, it's starting with a full sales system, something that's repeatable, something that, something that's scalable, something that's teachable. So you need to be able to say, okay, what systems, people, tools, subscriptions do I need to grow this to 1 million, 5 million, 100 million? And they change and you need to make sure. And we all make these mistakes as founders and business people. We think we've future proofed our plan and then we get to a certain point and it breaks. But what you really need to do is be planning further ahead than you really think and doing some of the work upfront while you actually have more time then when you'll find yourself later in this deal, when you have way more going on, way more responsibilities and you don't have the time to fix it. And that's where a lot of companies end up coming to us, where it's become overwhelming, they have too many things to do, they're making too many decisions, fatigue becomes real, and now it's okay, who do we go to to set all this up properly? Right.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: So I got a question for you then. Is it possible that some people come to and they're already on fire, or is it that there are some. So what typically happens in your scenario? Because I do know many companies that underestimate how difficult sales is. Right. And they get a lot of things wrong. So when they come to their own fire, what exactly have they done that has gone wrong? What's your experience of that?
[00:03:55] Speaker C: It really depends. There's so many things, but a big one is what I would call the founder problem, where the founder is operating like only a founder can. And you and I have spoken about this at length and it's something that we understand better than most. Founders have more flexibility, more decision making power, they know more about the product, they know more about the roadmap. Also they can decide to give discounts, they can decide to stretch the service or offer an extra piece. And in Reality, those are the things that break companies.
You know, what you really need is defined offerings, a defined ICP and defined stages to deal closure. And those are the things that really set companies apart. When you see them be extremely clear about who, who they're targeting, what they're offering, what the flexibility is, and then what are all the stages to create this revenue and that actually considerably easier to deliver. So what I see a lot of the time when companies are on fire, founders and high level executives have driven sales that the company aren't used to delivering. It causes issues throughout the process and finance. And then it causes even bigger issues when you try to deliver it. When you hand it over to a team who've never even delivered this before, this is a whole new product. And that's what we see with founders so regularly they make sales and they come to the back end team. And it's like I've never even seen this service. Like this is a whole new thing, you know, and you see it with salespeople too, but more with founders. And that's where we say, okay, we need to start from the ground up. We need offerings, clear people.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: I got to dig into this because there's so much ground you covered there, right? So if I were to just ask you, I mean, is this usually a people problem to bring to. Is it a process problem, is it a leadership problem? Or are you going to really break my heart and tell me it's all over the place?
[00:05:34] Speaker C: Deepak, 90% of the time it's all over the place. Like 90% of the time it's got a leg in all of those courts, right? But I would say that the easiest and thing you should fix right away if you're a founder at home and you're wondering is the system because B, players in a great system can get great results. A, players in a terrible system will leave. So the system is really the core. The people will follow the guidance that they're given. If you create a good enough system, and it's super clear, you can do this with nearly anyone, you don't need the best salespeople in the world to make revenue. What you do need is an extremely clear cost buyer's journey. You know where you know exactly what you're trying to do, what you're trying to offer and where you're going. So if you fix even the playbook, even before you fix the whole system, if you fix even the playbook and you have clarity on what you're trying to do, then you're 70% of the way there, the rest is very easy to fix.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: So this is interesting because know I come from a behavior, attitude and technique point of selling system. Right. And there's something you said that really rings a bell for me and I just want to really double click on this one. We said that, you know, there's maybe people problems, there's maybe process problem, maybe there's a leadership problem. And I think what I heard you say is that you can have all of those and there's a mix of it, but there seems to be a big scenario about process and structure and discipline and a system in place. Right. Could you tell me a bit more about the system argument that you're making over here? Because I get kind of get the feeling that you're kind of saying that there, it may be a three legged stool, but one leg is more important than the other. Is that correct?
[00:07:02] Speaker C: In what I'm hearing, 100%. Because I think when you look at anything, if you look at a business, an entrepreneur, a salesperson, they're actually quite similar when it comes to this specific problem.
If they feel like nothing is working, they get demotivated and they don't get any results. Right? And this works for all.
And a system can give you clear, actionable insights to what's working and what isn't working.
Because for example, if you're doing 80 outreaches a day, you're a basic SDR and you're doing 80 outreaches A DAY, if you don't know what industries you're targeting or what job roles you're targeting, you're going to get very mixed results, you're going to get very little feedback, you're not going to believe in what you're doing and ultimately that's going to cost you the biggest price and results. Whereas if you take that to a different piece and let's say you come to me and you get some advice and then you take it yourself and I say, you know who you really target?
You target senior HR managers in the logistics industry. And now we can move on to this is the message they're interested in, here's their pain points. All of a sudden there's motivation, there's momentum, which brings the next pieces with it. It's a very basic example of a very basic function. But you can spread that across your whole business. And now all of a sudden, at least we can target where the downfall is. Is it the people we're targeting? Is it the offer we're giving them? Is it the person? Because until you have a process how do we even find out what's wrong with the rest of the. You know what I mean? Until there's something that we're doing where we're all following, it's very difficult. And another version is, is your SD or.
Or your salesperson or whoever is involved in your outreach, are they waking up every day knowing exactly what they're doing from 9am or is their job to spend the first part of the day figuring out what they're doing? These are very different things. You know, one is organized and it's measurable. One is absolute chaos.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Listening to you, I get the feeling that you've gone through the hoops a few times. You've been running around the blocks a bit on this one, right?
So if. If I were to think of a sales problem and if I would ask you about your approach and how different it is, what makes you so different or so unique compared to other people that are out there trying to solve this problem and helping companies grow, what would you say would that argument be that makes you unique?
[00:09:06] Speaker C: What makes us unique is. Is our approach. And I know probably a lot of companies say that, but I truly believe it. Right. And it's close to our heart. And for that we need to understand it. We. We come from big enterprise sales where it works really, really well. And we saw that it was very hard for smaller businesses to replicate that. So we spent a lot of time studying this. We spent a lot of time doing free work, doing early client work, and saying, okay, what are the keys? What are the actual things? And what we learned was the biggest thing is environment, right? So that comes into your systems, but it also comes into, like, the culture. It comes into the support.
And salespeople want to be understood by other salespeople. So what we changed was, right, okay, instead of hiring people for you that are great and seeing the pitfall in that, or just giving you the system or the playbook, how about we offer to embed ourselves and become part of your team, where we're going to manage, train and support the salespeople and give them what they need to be successful. We're going to help build the systems, the playbook, the messages, using all of what we're learning from multiple clients, multiple engagements to make that successful for you. And we're going to take this burden that you're struggling with off you and become your partner. And. And when we are in a partnership relationship, which is something you can feel when we're treating each other as we should and we're working towards the Same goal. We can cover off a lot of the things the average founder cannot. There's things we need them to cover for us too. And that's what sets us apart, is that we don't just provide a tool, a system, a person. We provide a whole culture and system to making more revenue.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: I can immediately sense that's a founder speaking right there. Right? Because you put in such a twist to their responses that I had to ask you. Now you're speaking to other founders, you're a founder yourself. Sometimes I'm very sure you get very like, my gosh, the guy is on the wrong track. He's not. It's getting the point. He's fallen in love with this product.
So when you are talking to a client of yours and let's say the client is a entrepreneur, a founder, which typically they are, right. And he's either very early in the game or he's established and you want to offer a service to him, what conversation do you have that tells you that this client is truly ready to either grow or not? We got a problem here.
[00:11:14] Speaker C: I think there's a couple of things I'm trying to dig into, but one of the main ones, I try to ask myself the question, would I invest in this product? Would I invest in this guy's business if he was coming to me looking for his money, how would I feel about it then? And I try to put myself in that mind frame and ask questions in that way, because there is certain problems we can't solve, delivery being one of them. For example, if this is a tech product and you need engineers and they can't deliver at this level, I have to tell you that, because we're not going to be successful. Right? So I need to see that there's value in the areas around what I'm going to bring and then that I can get buy in to solve the problem that I'm here to solve.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: So what's this evidence of buy in? What exactly? Looking for your.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: I'm looking for somebody who understands they have a problem first and is admitting they have a problem. Um, because it can be very difficult to work with somebody who wants more revenue but doesn't want to change. Because these things are intrinsically linked. Right. So I'm looking for somebody who understands exactly what I'm bringing. And as we communicate, we're very clear on what I'm delivering. Because again, I'm not delivering on the back end, I'm delivering on the front end. So what exactly am I going to do? What kind of Volume are you looking for? Are we building the teams and solutions with realistic numbers to deliver on what you want? If you want to. If you're a seven figure business and you want to become an eight figure business, which is kind of who we target mostly now, it depends where in the seven figures you are. There's realistic numbers to grow depending on the amount of outreach we do and the amount of sales and inbound leads we have. And I want to make sure that you, we set numbers together, we're very clear on what our targets are. And then we go backwards in the calculators, we have to say, well, that means we need this amount of meetings at minimum, meaning we need to do this amount of outreach. And based on average services, people aren't saying, oh well, can we just try with one salesperson and still get the same result? No, because that's the whole problem that we had in the first place.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: It's actually a very powerful thing you just mentioned there. Right. There's quite a lot that you've just thrown out and I'll just make sure the listeners kind of digest that. We have the founder conversation that you're having. You're a founder, so your spidey sense is tingling when you hear that. Some of the learning I got from you is that you know when someone is ready because they're willing to change and they're willing to listen and they're willing to admit. And I think that's a very powerful message to founders out there. If you are bringing in someone from outside to help you guide you, then you need to be open up. Right. Explain what's going on. But there's also quite a lot you said which really has me to dig in here. Right.
At what point do you, at a very personal level feel that you're getting entangled or you feel like screaming and shouting at the guy because not getting your point as a founder. So do you have some systemic processes in place that allow you to have that conversation with these guys?
Case studies and how exactly do you soften them up? I'm just curious.
[00:13:56] Speaker C: Yeah, it depends. I think what I always have taken on board, even as a salesperson that I've brought to this role that really works is like one. I care a lot about this and I'm learning either way. I'm still a sales guy and I'm still a founder. Right. So even if you and I are having a conversation about your business and you're not really the perfect client, well, I'm learning something I can take to another client. To another process, to another business. I'm trying to understand what you have figured out, what you haven't. And I think when you take that very seriously, you start to build a more honest relationship because you're founder to founder, right? And you're talking about problems and I'm saying, hey, I saw a guy with this problem. Would you say it's like this? No, it's actually a bit more like this. Like, okay, that's interesting. Here's a way we solved that before.
That's not really on brand for me. Okay, great, here's the different way. And we're seeing where that, where it kind of links up in a chain. And ultimately when we get an agreement, I say, okay, great. Here is that we've built a lot of calculators. For example, I'm really good with content marketing and we have this kind of reach. I'm like, okay, well that's great because we can drive a lot of leads from that. And let's look if we change some things, how that would look or you know, I'm really interested in cold calling or cold email or more outreach. It's like, okay, great, we have average numbers for that and then we build up a picture of what medium high and low results look like and we kind of say, okay, how do you feel about this? And I think for most founders, once an entrepreneur has trust in you, they're willing to try it with you. And we've lowered the bar to working with us really, really low because we know, as I've been in a startup situation, been a found salesperson, we want to make it as easy for you to grow as possible and then do such a great job that you stay. So we do no long term contracts. We start upfront, we work for 30 days. If you're happy, you stay. If you're unhappy, we part ways friends. Because we don't want anyone to waste their money either, and very few people do. But we've structured it in a very low barrier way. And I think once I get to the point with a founder where we feel we understand each other, where we've provided some clear metrics and now we're really just kind of asking for a test period per se. And we find in 90% of cases people want to continue with the results that they get because we're very realistic about them upfront.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: So there was something you said earlier about you sitting with someone, you're trying to explain to them and they give you either budgetary constraint or they feel that, let's start Slow, let's do one first. And you said there's always a mathematical constraint, right? I mean, as an example, if I want to make 20,000 bucks per month and my average ticket is two, that means I need 10 customers to get 10 customers, I need to speak to maybe 100. So when you do these journeys with these people, do you get a point where sometimes you have to part ways with individuals who don't understand that this investment just won't work? It's a waste of money?
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Yes. And I think that's a mistake I made earlier on in my business where I tried to make things work that deep down, if I really looked at myself, I said, one person isn't going to work here.
And I think one person sales team in every scenario is a terrible idea because one, you're isolating someone, they never work out as well. You're putting a huge risk in your business. If this person is sick, if this person decides to quit, all these conversations stall and stop and we're restarting again. And for me, I wish I did, but now I'm more realistic and say, hey, if you don't have the budget to do what we need to do, here's what it looks like. Call me back and you have any questions in the meantime, ask.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Thanks.
So this is great. We're going to do a close now.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: We framed the challenge.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: When we come back, we'll talk about the mindset of sales and why resilience is not optional in that world.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: We'll be right back with real stories, fresh insights, and action steps to help you rise up at work without losing yourself. You're watching Rise up at work on Now Media Television.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: And we're back.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: I'm Dr. Deepak Bhutra and you're watching Rise Up At Work on NOW Media Television. Let's keep reclaiming your career and learning how to truly rise up at work.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: Hey, everyone.
So this is Rise up at Work on NOW Media Television. Watch anytime on the NOW Media Television app. We are available on Roku, iOS and Android or stream at Now Media TV.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Welcome back, Giro.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: We've been having a lot of fun, a lot of conversation, right? And I think the first segment was really powerful. We just kept talking, went over time.
Sales for me is one of those few professions where rejection is constant. You and I know that, right? We feel that all the time. But performance is very visible. It's literally on a dashboard. Everyone knows what happening in the world, right? And you cannot make excuses because you're going to get exposed very fast, very quick. Because everything is numeric. Now here's a question for you. You're an enterprise sales guy. You built your chops. You know what you're doing because you've gone through the pain and misery, right? For someone who spent years in enterprise sales, what does that world teach me and you about resilience? That most professions never force you or me to confront?
What's so unique about sales?
[00:18:34] Speaker C: What's so unique about sales is that you're actively working for the results you get. And you have to actually commit to it before you understand that. But I remember very early in my career, I talk about this all the time. Every time I'm on any show, I talk about this. But one of my first sales managers used to always say, it's just about your attitude and your actions. Everything else is just noise, right? And they teach you the actions and you have to show up yourself with the attitude. And the problem with it is, is that sales is a marathon. Not even in enterprise sales, every sale is a marathon. But in life of sales, it's a marathon. And you need to show up and do those actions with a smile on your face every single day. But when you've done it for long enough, you get to look back and be like, look at where I've gotten to. Look at what I've gotten from it. Look at what I've learned. So for me, what sales has taught me is like, you really got to work on that marginal gains or that Kaizen approach where you do the right thing every single day. And these really small things add up to really big things in the long run. And I think if salespeople look back on their career, the time you didn't send that follow up email up right away often is resulting in the one that is the last deal. The time you said, I'll wait until Monday to make that call. And you learn from that and you keep implementing good habits, good actions.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: What's really cool about what you said is that a lot of guys listening in intuitively will nod their heads with what you're saying.
Here's. I think also the message you're trying to convey to them is that it really matters. So you need to start measuring yourself. And I think that's one of the big things that people don't do. They just do not measure themselves. They don't measure the performance because it's like being on a diet and you don't measure the amount of cookies you're having. But if someone tells you to start writing it down, then suddenly you realize oh, my gosh, I had six cookies. I never even realized that. And I think that's what great sales people do. They make it a right behavior. They have the right metrics, the right leading indicators. Now, clearly we're getting into something here. But if I were to ask you, you've met great salespeople and maybe you were a great salesperson. Let's assume that for a second, right?
You think they cut from a different cloth, boss. What mindset separates these people who thrive from the people who burn out?
[00:20:29] Speaker C: What's crazy is that I both agree and disagree with this. So when people say, oh, great salespeople are boring, I'm always like, no, great salespeople are made by great sales managers.
But there is a caveat.
The attitude is extremely important. And we've all met the person who's extremely driven to their detriment. But what you're looking for is the quiet, driven individual. They're not always the most extroverted, which people get mixed up with. But a person who takes their work seriously is so driven that they're going to do the right things, but not so driven that they're insulted by feedback. Because sales is a huge feedback loop.
Internally, externally, customer manager. There's a huge amount of information swirling, and you have to be driven enough without blindly driving yourself. You've got to realize this is all learning opportunities. Every single moment is a learning opportunity, every response, every conversation, every manager feedback session. So there is a little piece of them that's born, and it's an attitude, and it's hard to put your finger on what it is. But the type of person who wakes up every day, who's going to go out there and make you money, is a unique individual, right?
[00:21:37] Speaker B: It's funny you say that, because to be honest with you, someone asked me once, what's the unique chemistry? Do I get this type, this type, this type? And I'm like, I don't know. I've really tried to. There's a few characteristics that you just called out, right? Do what you said you're going to do, right? Wake up in the morning knowing what you're going to do and just do it. And I think that's ownership, and I think you'll be surprised. People with bad English, people with handicaps have rocked the sales world because they just do things in a certain way. And I get that. But now let me challenge you with something. If someone listening in right now says, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I get it. But do you understand, guys, that you're asking me to be consistently working on things that become difficult because I'm always in crisis. Right. My motivation is not exactly where it needs to be. So what would you say to someone who is trying to figure out these habits that create consistency but the motivation is disappearing because of this constant hardship that is sales?
[00:22:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's hardship. If you take it, it's hardship. And that's part of the other.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: Someone who has the experiences and can give you a little look into the past and kind of say, yeah, I've been there, I've been there. Sometimes I'm there. Every week I go, I take a walk, I reset myself and I realize it's attitude and actions again. Another thing is organization. Right. And you and I spoke about this at length. You can be a founder and a sales team and all those things as one person, but that requires you to segment your time. If you need to do outreach for X amount of outreach, well then you need to do an hour of outreach every day. You need to do an hour of follow ups every day. You need to do an hour of these things. I think in reality, if you're in crisis all the time, it means you're not doing the right percentage of each task. You might be doing an awful lot of one thing or an awful lot of the other, but not enough of each in a balance.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: There's something very powerful in what you said. My experience with rockstar salespeople is that they actually may not be good at time management, but they're very good at time prioritization.
They do the things that matter upfront. It's like, I don't know how to say this too, but you know, a lot of people get a plate of food and half the stuff they don't like, I've noticed, they finish it off first and then they sit and do the other stuff that give them satisfaction. I think that's what sales is about. I personally don't like cold calling Gerald. I hate it with a vengeance. But you know, if you don't do it, you're in trouble. And when you don't do it, you will see the trouble because those numbers that are will start fading away. So I'm going to start, you know, wrapping up and trying to ask you a couple of questions. I really think even outside of sales there has to be some nuggets that you can give us that anyone listening in who's not in sales can apply to become more resilient and purposeful in their career. And you're a young man and you also did sales earlier. Right. And I also recall you did a lot of sales managers have been very beneficial to you. Just give me that one or two nuggets that you really would give to non salespeople to take away from this conversation.
[00:24:22] Speaker C: I think like one of some of the things you and I have discussed before, the good ones to go back to, be curious, always be learning. And I think if you can frame yourself in that mind frame that everything is a learning opportunity, it's going to take a lot of your sensitivity away. Which instead of you needing to be resilient, you're going to realize you've been fighting with yourself a lot. What does this person think? Why isn't this working? Why does this person not adopt this and look at every loss as the key? And like I think where and this is for life, for business, for sales, every time you lose, which you're going to do more than you win, look at it to understand truly why and how you can be better next time. You know, if it's a job interview you don't get, sit down with yourself, get opinions from others. It takes the hard edges off the wind here, right. And it's not going to sting as much. And then you don't need to be as resilient. You know, if you're doing the right things and you're centering yourself more, then you probably don't need it as much. I'm not really big on preaching resilience.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: I would agree.
[00:25:14] Speaker C: Managing yourself, you know, I would agree with you.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: There's this thing you said earlier about reset, right? Walk away, reset, come back. And I think that's what people need to do is it's Washington, repeat, but done in a structured way. And I really like that. So what I want to do is I'm going to start setting up for the next segment. We've talked about resilience under pressure. Up next, we look at the turning point when sales experience becomes entrepreneurship and the safety net disappears. This should be an interesting conversation. See you on the other side. Garud.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: Pleasure.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: We'll be right back with real stories, fresh insights and action steps to help you rise up at work without losing yourself. You're watching Rise up at work on Now Media Television.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: And we're back.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: I'm Dr. Deepak Bhutra and you're watching Rise Up At Work on NOW Media Television. Let's keep reclaiming your career and learning how to truly rise up at work.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: Thank you. And we're back. And it's been a lot of fun with Garud We've been talking about a lot of things. Now I want to move into the shift from performer to builder.
There's a real difference between carrying a quota and carrying the full weight of a company. And this is that very unique situation we have with Garod, where he is both a agency delivery of a service, but he's also been a founder and he's done enterprise sales before.
I'm going to shift the gears a bit now. I'm going to try to blend in your entire background into a couple of questions that I want to hope that you can give us some clarity on.
When you left enterprise sales and you started your own company, what was the first moment where you realized the safety net was gone and the responsibility was entirely yours?
[00:26:50] Speaker C: I think it was almost moment when literally it was the first time in my life where I wasn't selling behind a brand with marketing materials, with all this support. I thought it was great when I worked in sales, and I probably was, but this was a completely different thing. I turned around, There was no one behind me. You and I have discussed that before.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:08] Speaker C: There was no support. There was nothing. And honestly, it's terrifying and liberating all at once because, you know, have you been in those conversations at work where people say, I don't like the way they do that, or I don't like the way this is done, or I don't like this culture, this action? Well, you get to change it all, but you also have to do it all. And it's a very strange situation to be in. But I think it was also really, really good because I sat there and I did all the jobs in my company pretty much. And that when I was hiring, I kind of knew a lot more about who I wanted, how I wanted it done, and I was creating a foundation for them to spring off and become successful in my world, if that makes sense. In the world of my company.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: It does make sense. And I'll be honest with you, if I think of all the entrepreneurs and founders listening in right now, they're all nodding their head because you got a very profound point you made there.
You. You've just. I came from the corporate world for 30 years, right? And when I used to call, I would say, x Company is calling. And everyone's like, hey, X Company, tell me what's up? And now, as a founder, it's me, myself. And as you said, where's the cavalry, man? It's you. And there's something you said that I really want to dig into. You said that you did Everything that needed to be done, which in my mind tells us that we typically have division of labor. When you work for a corporate world or when you are a cog in the wheel. Right. There's other cogs in that wheel.
Now, if you were to go back and think about all the work that you did, what belief about success changed the most once you became a founder rather than employee, how did you wind yourself up?
[00:28:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I think I was quite lucky in that I had been around a lot of smaller companies and entrepreneurs and founders before I even started this journey. And I was trying to learn about what made them successful and what didn't. And I had an idea what I was trying to do. And I think that's where I see some founders who are, you know, amazing founders, but they got into it kind of by accident. They. They stumbled their way in and they learned as they went, which is great. But I took a much more method meditated approach and like, I really structured time to do each thing. And the first thing I did was I sat down and I looked at what am I actually capable of doing and what am I not? Because I looked at it and I said, right, I know I'm good at sales, and I know I'm going to gravitate towards sales tools, things, leads. So I need to structure how much time I can spend on that. And like, I looked at marketing and I spent an hour and realized I'm not that creative a person.
That's not a lever I can pull on right now. So I need to be realistic about the levers that I can use.
And I kind of scheduled my time in that way and focused on what I was good at and kind of said, hey, certain things will have to wait till I can hire, because I could spend months on these things and I would never get it to that level.
And from there, once I started doing the actions, it was tough, it was hard. But once I persevered, which I had learned from sales, I started to get results, which motivated me. And then I doubled down and then we started to hire. And then it became a little bit easier until you get bigger and it gets a little bit harder again. And you're constantly on that journey. Right.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: This is so, again, you know, it's like deja vu. I've got goosebumps all over me right now because I can sense that this is lived pain, lived success also. Right. And any entrepreneur, founder listening in, there's something very profound in what just happened there. You actually discovered a new side to you. Right. And I also Think you were very pragmatic. You actually knew where you were strong. And this is what I always tell people.
Your strengths should be used to mitigate your weaknesses. We're not asking to get rid of your weaknesses. And I think this is where you figured it out. One of your strengths was that you know your weaknesses or you or your strengths. Therefore you focused on different things. And I think that's a very powerful thing. That, that's self awareness also.
Ghetto at display. Right now.
I'm going to push on this a bit more with you though, right? So you're an entrepreneur and you've now started reveal yourself when you were enterprise sales. I'm sure it revealed a different side of you, the resilient side of you. What side of you do you think entrepreneurship revealed the most, which surprised you?
[00:30:57] Speaker C: I think ownership. And I know that sounds super obvious, but when I was a salesperson, there were certain things I passed to different teams. There were certain things I had extreme ownership on. All of a sudden I own all the problems and decisions. Even if someone else makes them, I own the result. Right? And I think that was a learning, but also something I thrive in. Like I actually like it. And I found that, for example, take marketing, which we've discussed is a weakness of mine. I can't create great content. I'm not the type of guy who can make a social post. But I can make decisions on directions, I can make decisions on budgets. And when people present me with good quality work, I'm in a different world. And because I know I own the result, I got good at that. Then the next stage was, how good are you at giving that away? Because now we're got bigger and I can't own all the marketing decisions. So we have to build a framework. You can decide up to this level, you can decide up to this budget, and then anything over this, I'll decide. And I learned that I'm great at taking it on, but I also struggled a little bit more with giving it away, but built myself up to that. Right. And that's kind of what I focus on as a founder, is get making sure decisions are made and making sure the ship is still running in the direction I want it to run, you
[00:32:10] Speaker B: know, so you just walked into an absolute beautiful setup here, my friend. I really need to ask you this question. Then.
If growth is dependent on you and you're now scaling and you get to a point where you know that the growth that needs to come is going to be held back by you, because that also happens right where do you and how do you decide where to spend your time? Do you then when do you sell, when do you build, when do you hire, when do you fix? You already started on that. I just really want to double down on that.
[00:32:37] Speaker C: I think it really depends on who you are and what your personality type is because not everyone is great at self reflection and even those who are still need what I'm about to say. You need support, you need external support. Like I could never talk about how important some level of a business network is for you to feel understood, for you to feel like other people understand you and you understand them, but also to ask the hard truths of say, like, we can do it, you can do it as a sales trainer and many other ways. I can do it as a, again in a sales focus way. But you need someone to say, hey, this is what I'm doing, what do you think? And you need to listen to them because we all as founders are so used to driving that sometimes we need to sit in silence and get some feedback. And from a business perspective, not on your product, not on your workflow, not on your sales process, on where you sit in the business and where you're most effective and how other people see you, not just yourself.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: So I have a question for you. This makes a lot of sense, right? As a founder, the ability to actually say you don't know something and remain honest is powerful and I respect that. Now let's just go back here a bit. You've matured, you've learned a lot of things. If I could allow you to time travel and you want to walk into a diner and you see your 21 year old self sitting there and you walk up and they have this back to the future moment, right? The guy looks up at you and he recognizes you, but he doesn't recognize you because he says, I kind of know this fellow and you look at this guy and you sit down and you say, hey buddy, blah, blah, blah. What advice would you give that 21 year old about building a meaningful and sustainable career? Assuming that he's not freaked out seeing himself coming in from the future, Right?
[00:34:18] Speaker C: Yeah. I think the real thing that I would say to someone, it's kind of personal in some ways, but like, you're right, just keep going.
Like the value of hindsight for me in that how many times throughout my career have I said, am I doing the right thing? Is this going to get me where I want to go? It's all wasted minutes. We all have it though. There's nothing you can do. But if I got to meet me again, I'd be like, you're doing the right things. Don't worry about it so much. Just keep doing it. You know, it, it actually is going to be great if you just keep on this path. The fulfillment you're going to have in the long term with the ideas and plans you have are more than you could even imagine.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: I must be honest with you. That is very deep. Very deep. If you think about it, I think human beings in general are pretty bad at showing compassion to themselves. Right.
And I agree with you in a sense that if I were to go back in time and meet my 21 year old, I would say, hey, there's going to be times where you're going to be challenged. You may make bad decisions, but overall, buddy, you did well.
Stay the course. Just remain positive and just go through whatever that life throws at you. Right?
And you know, that's really interesting because I think a lot of people would go back and give me a lecture on or I would at this inflection point, instead of taking that job, I would take that job. And to me, that's the whole charm, right, Isn't it? I am successful because I failed. And I rose again. And I rose again. And I think that's the message I'm picking up from you.
What I like to do is start setting up for the next segment. So this is a great conversation. I really think that we were looking at how this identity shift occurred for you from an employee to a founder. When we return, we will close with practical guidance. I'm going to push you on some more things. Great. How to grow at work without losing yourself in the process. And I think this should be an interesting conversation. We'll be right back.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: We'll be right back with real stories, fresh insights and action steps to help you rise up at work without losing yourself. You're watching Rise up at work on Now Media Television.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: And we're back.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: I'm Dr. Deepak Bhutra and you're watching Rise up at Work on NOW Media Television. Let's keep reclaiming your career and learning how to truly rise up at work.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: This is Rise up at work on Now Media Television. Watch anytime on the Now Media Television app. It's available on Roku iOS and Android or stream at NowMedia TV. Now we're with Gerod and we're going to start doing some practical direction. Right. Let's close with that. I want to turn his experience into something people can use tomorrow morning, literally. And I think that's a powerful way to work through this. Right.
A strong career is not built on intensity alone. This is something I've always told people. It needs structure, perspective and the discipline to keep moving. And I think we've got oodles of advice on that from Gerald. What I want to do now is that, you know, get down to some really intense personal questions, right? And get some stuff out here. There are many people on this call who feel overwhelmed. On this call I met on this show listening into a side call. I'm so used to the corporate life. There are many people today feeling overwhelmed or stuck at work.
What is one small but powerful action I or they could take this week to regain some momentum? What would you give us? Guidance.
[00:37:27] Speaker C: The way that I would approach it is kind of specific to me, but I think it's quite useful. So first things first. I would finish out whatever day you're in, like whatever workday you're in. I would take a break after work. That's the first thing I do. I love to walk, I love to do those kind of exercise related things. Get some fresh air, get some nature, whatever it is to you could be read a book, take that time, set a time later that day that you're going to come back to this.
Ask yourself, let's write down everything that I could do to make this easier for myself, right? And when I've done this exercise with some people, it's been super basic. I could get up earlier, I could show up on time, I could do this and other people. The first line is I need a new job. And maybe that's where you get right and it's possible, all of this is possible.
Break it down into something that you can actually do tomorrow that doesn't take too long.
Make sure that in your own environment, especially if you work remote, but even if you work in an office, make sure you're not sticking in the rut like. And what I always say to my salespeople is you have a terrible call. Get up on your feet, get off that chair. Like go find that reset, move around, go outside. Whatever it is, don't take too long because you don't want to be afraid of getting back in the saddle. But like break the concentration a little bit. Give yourself just a touch of a break. Get out of the negative mind frame. Start the new task with the positive mind frame. Another thing I like to do is set a timer for how long you're going to do something and promise yourself you're going to give it full effort.
I'm Going to work for one hour on this script, and I am going to make it the most impactful hour I ever can. Break your work into chunks that are more manageable to comprehend. I think stress is thinking too many things at one time.
And I think when I am in, like, a deep flow of work, it's because I've planned what I'm going to do. I've given myself realistic time to complete those tasks, and I am qualified to complete those tasks. I delegate what I'm not good at or what I shouldn't be doing, and I go into it and I'm flying through work and I come out refreshed. When I go to an office day where there's a hundred problems, they're all coming at me from different angles. I haven't given myself enough time. God, I feel I couldn't be beyond overwhelmed.
The message is always the same. You got to take control of this. This is your life. It's important that you're happy, and it's important that you're impactful, you know, and for you, you've got to plan it that way.
[00:39:41] Speaker B: It's really interesting, Garrett, because I thought you're going to give me one small but powerful idea, and one idea that you give actually has sub components to it, which I think is extremely powerful. One of the things that I heard you say, which I really like, is because I've seen rock star sales people and founders do that very well. And I think it's anyone who's in a profession, which is, if you have put some time aside in the diary to do something, just do it, and make a promise to yourself that I carved this time out. Let's not get caught up with other stuff. And by the way, I'm notorious for this because I've got tons of things going on in my mind. There's something you said that I really wanted to point out to the listeners. You said, when you're doing multiple things at the same time, that is typically when you're going to get stressed out or you're going to get burnout or whatever. And I would agree with that. Human beings have been told, right, that you can multitask. You know, computers can multitask, but if you really go into the structure, you actually will realize it's not true. It's still separate threads they're running. But we are not human being. Human beings attach emotion to threads. And that's the problem right there.
While you are telling me to work on this document for a proposal, I'm thinking about the Dog who has to go to the vet. Computers don't think like that. So multitasking. Let's be very, very clear over here. We are designed badly for it. And I think this is a misnomer that people have. There's another thing you said that I really liked, which I want to dig into with you a bit. Is that when did you discover that fresh air or being active really helps you or is this just your way of. For me, it's kicking squirrels, literally. I mean, it's like, go take the dog for a walk and then chase squirrels for no reason to get the angst out of me, then come back with a vengeance. My reset is done. When did you discover that?
[00:41:16] Speaker C: When I was in enterprise sales, probably maybe two years.
I found myself in a position where I used to have to make an awful lot of calls. Like physical phone calls, not cold calls. This was more like project based things. So it's like customer, supplier, engineer. Customer, supplier, engineer. And we were going around in circles and I noticed that I was walking. Like I woke up one day and I was like, am I always walking around when I'm on the phone? And I spoke to a friend of mine who I live with at the time and he was like, you have covered more ground in this house than I've ever seen anyone cover outside. And I thought, well, obviously that's how I'm self soothing. Like, that must be why I'm doing it, right? So I fed into it and I thought, okay, I like to move around. It gives me energy, it makes me feel better. So why don't I do that as an activity then? Later in my career, I had a really good manager who basically suggested to every salesperson that you should walk on your lunch break. And he'd give us some of the time back from the day to make sure we could eat. So he's like, why don't you leave 20 minutes early, walk for 40 minutes, have 40 minutes to eat. And he was like, and come back with ideas, right? And he used to ask us what these ideas were. And it really just worked for me. And I've given that bit of advice to many people. It might not be walking for you, but if you can find what that item is, it's great. And on my most stressful days, Deepak, being honest, I walk in the morning, I walk at lunch, I walk at night, and I need it and I do it and I feel better.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: I can tell you one thing, my dog loves it when I'm stressed because he gets six walks a day. Then. Right. Because what is really interesting is that. And this is a call out to everyone listening, figure out what works for you. I don't think that Gerod's point is to force yourself to go for a walk if that's not what works for you. But what is really interesting is that for me, when I used to. How do you say this very crudely, I am one of those walkie talkies, as I call it, right. I actually use headsets that allow me to be 50 meters away from my desk. So you will have these scenarios where I'm literally in the kitchen making a sandwich while still on a call. I literally walk into the backyard, and unfortunately for me, my backyard is on a straight line, So I want to play with the dog, but I cannot do it that. So that I need to figure out a better headset to do that, though.
But I have a question for you. Now that we've kind of established, there's a personal practice that you have that keeps you grounded. I want to get into a bit more detail over here.
When you are constantly under pressure, you've spoken about a lot of things, and I just get the feel that you brought some structure to that. Is that true? That you brought some structure into the way that you think about how to structure your day, your life?
[00:43:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
Probably not my strongest suit when I was younger. So I really worked on it, and it's become a power. Um, and look, we make mistakes, and I don't follow it every single day, but I've noticed the days that I don't are tougher than the days that I do. I book a lot of my time and, like, one of the tricks I learned over the years, I can't remember who I learned it from. I wish I probably should give credit to that person. When I'm doing something specific, I book an hour to do something. You always tend to get a good idea about something else when you're doing one task.
[00:44:11] Speaker B: Right?
[00:44:12] Speaker C: So I keep a notebook next to me. I allow myself to write it in ideas, but I do not allow myself to revisit it. I got it. And I've made a physical note of closing that notebook that's closed off again. And look, sometimes it's distracting, but I concentrate on that task. I also have a thing where every night I set a set of tasks for the next day. And you always write this too long. So here's a good piece of advice for anyone. If you. If you do this right, because you always put too much. That's the problem. I prioritize a minute, a maximum of three or four things I need to do tomorrow. And I always make sure I do them. And it mentally makes me feel better. I'm not saying they're always right, I'm not saying they're always prioritized right. We all have those issues. But it helps me a lot mentally close the book at the end of the day. And then when I go for my walk, I'm like, okay, look, worst case scenario, I got my three things done, you know, and I try to tick them off early in the day to make sure that I'm going to have that satisfaction. And I also switch off a lot. You know, I'm one of so many times I hear founders and I hear famous influencers like, you got to work 12 hours a day, 30, 30 days a month, try it. You know, it's not for everybody. I'm pretty much minimum takeoff, not a whole weekend, because founders don't have that luxury. But Friday evening, I have a time I finish, no matter what's going on, unless there's a client emergency, I'm gone. And I take Saturday off. And I try my best to do things I enjoy and live my life a different way and come back Sunday into thinking time and Monday into operating time.
[00:45:34] Speaker B: That makes a lot of sense to me actually, because this is your.
You have built something around your personality. And I think the message that we're giving to everyone is this is going back to the same point, self awareness. You gotta get self aware to the point where to be honest with you, and this is something that just comes to my mind is that I work with professionals that are very, very hustle, gotta do this, gotta do that. But there's something that I've picked up along the course of the. In 30 years, I've noticed one thing about these individuals, right? Once they reach a certain age, they start to also balance their diets, their energy levels. And energy is not just emotional. I also realized that as people mature, the same person that was banging away on emails over a weekend is actually not banging away on emails over the weekend because it actually realized you can send the email out, but if other people are going to respond to it. While you're telling people that we need to create a culture of work life balance, it's the sender that creates the ruckus. So you got to, as a leader, then stop sending emails that people need to reply to over a weekend.
This is something that people have to figure out at their own personal level. Now, if I want to rise in my career And I got to slip that in, right? I want to rise up in my career without burning out. What warning signs do I need to catch early? Because if we spoke about stress and we spoke about burnout, I just want to understand from you, I mean, if you're talking to yourself, looking at yourself or maybe someone else in your team, what's the tell?
[00:46:55] Speaker C: Complaining.
If you find yourself over complaining, bravo. And I think, like, when you found your personal balance, you're not going to moan about it, you know, And I've seen people in every walk of life, at every level, we're searching for happiness and fulfillment, you know, and. And you can be extremely effective and have both. So if you're complaining, you need to take a look at yourself and understand why you're complaining and make a change, you know?
[00:47:18] Speaker B: Wow. Love that. Gerald, there's been so much that's come out from your lips today. From your lips to my ears, to God's ears. God bless. Love that, sir. I'd like to thank you for your clarity and honesty. That was great. Where can viewers connect with you and learn more about Sales Pipeline and the work you do?
[00:47:34] Speaker C: You can connect with us by searching Sales Pipeline on Google, by searching Sales Pipeline on LinkedIn or Sales Pipeline IO if you want to get in contact with me or someone from my team
[00:47:46] Speaker B: and on LinkedIn. I guess I have bumped into you on LinkedIn a lot.
[00:47:50] Speaker C: Yeah. Garod Cox. Grow Cox on LinkedIn or Sales Pipeline.
[00:47:54] Speaker B: Perfect. So great. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I'd like to thank you for joining us. I think the listeners would have enjoyed. I highly recommend to the listeners making some notes because one of the things you said was that when you are thinking of something and something else comes up, you write it, but then you write it to putting it off. I'm now asking people to write it to absorb and take it in. So that's it from our side. Thank you very much for joining me. Take care.
[00:48:16] Speaker C: Pleasure.
[00:48:19] Speaker B: It.
